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OPINION

Letter: ‘Bad’ science and ‘good’ education

  • Published: May 21, 2008 - Page: 6B - UPDATED: 12:05 a.m.

Having followed the debate in the letters to the editor about intelligent design being taught alongside of evolution these last few weeks, I am left wondering is there some joke that no one told me about? There has been a long string of college professors and now even a machinist that has written about how intelligent design is “bad” science and that our kids will not be able to compete.

News flash to professors and machinist: teaching our kids their way has made them unable to compete NOW! Louisiana is ranked among the worst in public school education, and they are telling us that intelligent design is bad? Is this a joke?

Of course this brings us to one glaring question in this debate; if mixing religion and science makes for “bad” education then how is it that schools like Catholic High, Episcopal High, Parkview Baptist turn out world-class medical doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. Please don’t tell me they have money and parental involvement. If mixing religion and science makes “bad” science, then the only thing money and parental involvement would accomplish is these schools would be really good at teaching “bad” science.

Logic would dictate that in spite of disadvantages the public schools should turn out better students since they have “good” science. So who is to blame for Louisiana public schools being among the worst in the United States? Can’t be religious people since there is no religion in public schools. The only people to blame are the very professors and machinist who write to this paper.

Bottom line is to all professors and machinist, when doing it your way turns out students who are not among the worst in the United States, then you can brag about your “good” science. Until then, don’t embarrass yourself.

Harold Daigle Jr.
graduate student
Baton Rouge


Comments (26)
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Former Republican
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
12:53 AM

"Louisiana is ranked among the worst in public school education, and they are telling us that intelligent design is bad? Is this a joke?" What a ridiculous fallacy. Every other state teaches evolution exclusive of the intelligent design fantasy as well - how are their students doing? Answer: 48 places above us. Just make sure that in making room for Christian ID, you also make room for the Scientologist theory of creation as well as Bhuddists, Hindus, and many other religions' theories of creation. After all - you opened the door to non-science - and once it's open, you've got to let everyone in.
bobxxxx
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
3:19 AM

Harold Daigle Jr., are you sure you want to stick your childish intelligent design magic into science education? Magic is for the Dark Ages, not the 21st century.
ga
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
5:49 AM

I remember the days of the pledge and a moment of silence. In this moment of silence you could pray to whomever you chose or just have a moment with your own thoughts. I believe that evolution and creationism are both Theories of how this world came to be. I was also taught that science was based on theories. So by the logic that I was taught they both should be taught. And to Former Republican, it should be creationism from all religions taught. Our children are in no ways stupid and they will believe in what ever they chose, but why should we (as parents and non parent adults) prevent them from having a well rounded education. The more you know about something the better chance of making the best decision you can make for you. The more you know about some the less close-minded you will be--and this is one of those subjects that the only people that you hear from are close-minded on both sides.
Christopher Fontenot
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
7:00 AM

What is everyone scared of? Evolution is no more a fact than space aliens or Bigfoot. Can someone show me just one transitional form to prove evolution is a fact?
Christopher Fontenot
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
7:00 AM

What is everyone scared of? Evolution is no more a fact than space aliens or Bigfoot. Can someone show me just one transitional form to prove evolution is a fact?
marc
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
7:41 AM

Bottom line is that you should not teach religion in a science class. Religion should be taught in religion class. And those religious schools that produce such great students, they teach religion in a religion class, not a biology class. Biology is for biology, and religion is for religion class. And what about the best school districts in the state? Zachary is one of the best and they teach science in their science class. This really is a simple concept.
C. David Parsons
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
8:38 AM

TEACHING DARWINISM TO THE INNOCENTS WITHIN THE CLASSROOM LEADS TO ATHEISM: "In 1916, one thousand scientists were polled as to their belief in a deity (i.e., God). Of the ones responding, 60 percent had no religious belief. A follow-up study 80 years later revealed that the percentage of atheists, someone who does not believe in or denies the existence of God, among scientists remains shockingly high: 78 percent of physicists, 58 percent of biologists, and 55 percent of mathematicians are atheists. Sixty percent of those polled by the University of Georgia historian Edward Larson snubbed Judaism, Islam, and Christianity by equating "belief in a deity and an afterlife with superstition based on fear and wishful thinking." Nature, 4-09-1997 Even more disturbing, only 10 percent of those polled "expressed an intense desire for immortality" (that is, going to heaven), thus, signifying that on the average only 10 percent of physicists, biologists, and mathematicians are under covenant. The great majority (90 percent) have little or no regard for God but, rather, oppose Him, promoting the error that the earth and all that is in existence happened by chance. The mystical tenet governs every aspect of academic science. To the point, obstructionists: scientists, biologists, mathematicians, and the NEA, teach the innocents within the classroom that there is no God. The appalling statistics serve to add insight into the obstructionist stalwart confronted by the investigation on every hand." -- Text taken from The Quest for Right, a new 7-book series on origins based on physical science, the old science of cause and effect.
joshua985
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
9:11 AM

Harold Daigle, those private schools do not mix religion and science. They are separate courses. I grew up in Catholic schools, and creationism or intelligent design or whatever was most certainly not taught. Natural selection and evolution was. David Parsons, of course teaching science would lead to less religion. Science explains phenomena that religion formerly had to explain. Just like as you grew older, the gifts under the tree on Christmas morning were no longer explained by belief in Santa Claus, but the actual knowledge that parents put them there.
John
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
9:17 AM

Christopher Fontenot Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:00 AM "What is everyone scared of? Evolution is no more a fact than space aliens or Bigfoot. Can someone show me just one transitional form to prove evolution is a fact? " While I cannot show them to you on this post, there are many many many transitional fossils out there and this is what has been used to knock big holes in intelligent design. ID says that all life started separately but science has many transitional fossils that show how the different branches of the tree of life, which ID science recognizes, are connected. ID science sees the biological world as a bunch of polls, that is a species was created somehow and then evolved within that species but never into something else. This is not true as bone studies of our early ancestors and the use of transitional fossils show clearly how some distant and now extinct ancestor connects the different species. The fact is if we start to talk about God in the science class which God are we going to tip the hat to? Should we make time to study how the religion Islam says life was created, go with the Roman Catholic version, or the Pagan?
abb3w
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
9:47 AM

Well, while I'm not familiar with Louisiana in particular, the typical Jesuit-run Catholic school makes very certain to keep Religion in the Cathecism class, and permit only Science in the Science classes. Money and parental involvement help, too -- especially since the Catholic Church has no doctrinal problem with teaching Evolution. As for Mr. Fontenot's (repeated) remarks, I suggest he should review the Florida Science Standards (available from FLDOESTEM.org) to understand the narrow Scientific meaning of "fact" and "theory". Facts are individual observations; a theory, such as Evolution, is a concise and comprehensive description of many facts from diverse means of observation. Tiktaalik roseae is the best know transistional form at present, but I also suspect he fails to understand the nature of species transition. For those up to a bit of serious math, check the papers "Minimum Message Length and Kolmogorov Complexity" by C. S. Wallace and D. L. Dowe, and "Minimum Description Length Induction, Bayesianism and Kolmogorov Complexity" by Paul M. B. Vitányi and Ming Li. From the axiomatic basis of formal logic and ZF set theory (simple "2+2=4" arithmetic), and the assumption of some finite relationship from Reality to Evidence, it's shown the simplest comprehensive description is the one most likely to also describe future data.
Dave
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
9:59 AM

"What is everyone scared of? Evolution is no more a fact than space aliens or Bigfoot. Can someone show me just one transitional form to prove evolution is a fact?" Mr. Fontenot - look in the mirror. You are a transitional form, along with every other living creature. Every fossil represents a transitional form. Evolution is a continuing process and is fact. Dave
withersteen
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
10:31 AM

As a former student of Brother Gordian at Catholic High in Baton Rouge, I can categorically state that Catholic High taught me evolution. Brother Gordian mentioned creationism/intelligent design only in passing, stating that the Bible is a book of faith and devotion, not science. The Bible was properly relegated to religion class. The Church also believes that the creation story in Genesis is NOT to be taken literally. We never discussed the creationism of the Bible as fact. Also of note, the Catholic Church is a proponent of evolution, and faults attempts to interject religious beliefs into science and public education in general. Sorry flat-earthers, the world still goes around- the sun that is!
frank
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
12:10 PM

I went to Episcopal High School here in Baton Rouge and I have a college degree in Religious Studies. In neither instance was Genesis presented as scientific fact. Evolution and the proof of the fossil record were all that tread into our Earth science class.
The REAL Reason
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
12:11 PM

Baton Rouge is largely populated with fundamentalist protestants who are only slightly less crazy than the fundamentalist muslims they hate so much. Also, they're gullible (see also: J. Swaggart, T. Haggard). Isn't it time you stopped letting these people run the state and the city's agenda?
ZHR
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
1:39 PM

Finally ! Someone who hit the nail on the head. Thank you, thank you, thank you "The REAL Reason". Those who hope to turn BR into a progressive city have their work cut out for them. The battle cry here is LSU Sports, huntin', and most of all JAY-ZUS. "Wut reason would anyone be interested in anything else"? This is the reason for our brain drain. It's not just economic opportunity. It's because it's an embarrassment to live in a place where the WASP mentality of "don't have too much fun or think too much or god 'll send ya ta Hay-ull !" still predominates. Witness how many "charasmatic" churches spring up each week to feed off the intellectually challenged. They're in fertile ground. And only a populace in ground this fertile would allow Sen. Never's bill to ever see the light of day.
Christopher Fontenot
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
2:06 PM

John, please!! give me a website or a magazine article that has proof of a transitional form. The truth is...there are none. Not one!! No one has ever shown what the platypus came from. What was a giraffe before it had a long neck? What did the hummingbird evolve from? With so-called "billions of years of evolution" there must be countless amounts of fossils showing transitional forms of these few examples. But alas...there are none. Because Genesis tells us that God created each one fully mature exactly as you see them so the question of "Which came first?...the chicken or the egg?" is clearly answered---the chicken. Please answer if you can the following: 1. The first creature to crawl from the primordial pool...was it male or female? 2. How did it find the opposite sex in order to reproduce? 3. How did it know to develop the opposite and corresponding reproductive organs? 4. If it was both male and female..why did it decide to separate the sexes? 5. Did it have lungs or gills? 6. How did it know the atmosphere it would be breathing in? 7. Did it have eyes? 8. If not, how did it know it would need them? 9. If so, how did it know it would need them? 10. If it failed its first attempt at reproduction, did the process had to start all over again?
Dave
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
3:05 PM

"John, please!! give me a website or a magazine article that has proof of a transitional form. The truth is...there are none. Not one!!" Mr. Fontenot - are you really interested in learning about transitional forms, or is your mind made up no matter what information you are directed to? Your statement above suggests that nothing will sway you. This is typical of creationists - otherwise there would be no creationists left as the information is overwhelming. See http://www.talkorigins.org/ and spend a few days reading there if you are really open to learning.
fratboy al
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
3:29 PM

On a related note: At least they didn't ban lap-dancing!!
joshua985
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
4:30 PM

Christopher Fontenot, Why would God see fit to give us an appendix or tailbone?
joshua985
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
4:31 PM

Why would God give us a tailbone and appendix?